LisaRose. That has been my point. It is human nature to agree with things and people if you already have an inclination to believe it. It is not exclusive to this site or to exJWs but to almost all humans and all human society. It is just that when it cost a small fortune to desminate an idea it limited the amount of theories that floated around. This was both for the benefit and detriment of society. For the benefit because not just anyone with a crazy idea could publish a paper and throw out any wacky idea they may have had. But it also hurt society because only those with money could distribute their ideas. It is just that as human society we still think that if something is published then it must not be an opinion it must be fact. But as we have seen just in the general media that is no longer the case. That as a society and people here have to look for actual facts and not just opinions and feelings masquerading as fact. We have to be more disernive of what is an idea and what is a fact.
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Outlaw. You are saying wrong again to what. The simple fact that orphan crow said that, that is pretty easy to verify you can just look at his comment. And if you think he is right, like I said it is an opinion without a way to conduct a real study. I said all it would be is an argument without a reasonable way to prove one way or the other.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Also orphan crow. I doubt not just in the general public, but also in the mental health field that it is far fetched to say that anyone in that field that you survey would be uniformally say that it is a high control organization. Would be a majority say that, I am not sure but I wouldn't take it to the bank on a bet that would happen.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Outlaw.he wrote:
It is because the general public does not have all the facts
The reasonable inference is that if the general public have all the facts than they would form a different opinion.
Outlaw you love to have different rules for people you agree with and those who don't. If some infers a opinion based on what Watchtower, as long as it is negative you would be all for it. And honestly outlaw if you disagree with me I couldn't careless. I don't think any statement I make you wouldn't find a issue with that. And just to be clear that is not a fact but is my opinion.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Orphan crow. You are twisting my words. Please read what I said. I said that it is far fetched to believe that if you conducted a survey of the general public, after telling those people what you want, that automatically those people would unionformally call Watchtower a high control organization. Did I say that you cannot convince people, or present facts that would get people to accept that? I never said that. So just as previously you don't want me to put words in your mouth, please do the same to me, don't put words in my mouth.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Great teacher. It is not contridiction. I never presented my opinion as a fact. Even scientist, and I am not saying I am, has opinions but they don't try and present their opinion as faceted. When I presented something that was an opinion, I predicated it with saying it is my opinion and that I can only speak to my own opinion or experience. I said that people have the right to their opinion or feelings but that doesn't mean it is a fact. No one should try and present their opinion as fact. Not watchtower not people here and not me. If I have an opinion and tried to pass it off as a fact please let me know and I will apologize for that.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Orphan crow. If you read my whole comments. I said even if you tell the general public anything you want. I knew what your argument would be. But you think that even if you presented, whatever facts, not opinions, that it would be automatic that the majority of the general public would say Watchtower is a high control organisation. If you do, again that is your opinion, but personally I find that far fetched. And since it is impossible to study it, all it would be is an argument with no way to prove one way or the other.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Orphan crow. I also suspect that if you ask on here if Watchtower is a high control organization, you would get a resounding yes. But that is not an automatic when you ask the general public. I am sure you would get some but it would not be automatic thing to say yes. Even if you presented whatever you want to present the interviewee. That is where I find the difference between objective and subjective because some may agree with the statement and some would disagree.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Finklestein. Again that is prospective. I know plenty of people who say you are not gay unless you practice an act of homosexuality and some say if u are attractive to people of the same sex than you are a homosexual. I came out as gay and everyone here is right, if I had sex with a man while going to meetings I would have not been in good standing. I left the second time when I started to fall in love with a man because I knew what the policy was. But while I was in people knew I was gay. I was in good standing, I had association with single brothers who knew I was gay, elders would invite me be around their family and hang out and never felt prejudiced against. I never claimed you could have sex with a man and be in good standing. All I have stated is I never felt that as a whole people thought that I had a mental condition or was homophobic.
Again other gay guys may have experienced the complete opposite that the moment they came out they were shunned. And I am not diminishing their experiences or hurt feelings. But it is not right to claim that as a whole people who are witnesses or Watchtower would do that.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Orphan crow. I think that are definitions of objective is different, and that is partially my fault. You are using the common definition of someone who has no bias one way or the other. Like an objective observer who doesn't care which side is correct and which side is wrong. Here is one definition of it.
(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
I don't want to put words in your mouth but that is what it seems like it. But the following the definition of objective that I am using
objective is something that can be quantitatively described.
And I am using this definition for subjective
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
Also when I studied aspects of medicine they use the two terms to indicate things that one feels or sees by their own observation. But objective evidence or data is what can be measured and can be indicated by data. Such as pain is subjective and weight is objective.
So when I said that there would be objective data of an abusive wife, I mean there would be evidence that no matter who observed it, they would come to the same or similar conclusion.
If two people look at a scale one person cannot say that the scale says 200 lbs and the other person says no it says 150. One person would be correct and one person would be wrong. But if one person says that 300 is heavy and the other says it is lite both can be correct based on their prospective.